Improve key mappings with latest LIRC in Boxee Box

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 08/Feb/11 1:24 PM Afair, 1.0.4.17248 does not have the new LIRC, but rather 1.0.4.17401 which is not released to the public yet. I'm keeping this bug open to discuss once we have the updated SP4 out.

Jason M Page added a comment - 08/Feb/11 1:32 PM Ah, my bad, I thought I read it was in SP4 and must have thought that it meant RC for SP4 17248, I found the bug report and you are of course correct. I will test when the new build becomes available and update the discussion as appropriate. Also, reworking key mappings is something that will have to happen regardless of LIRC version I think since they are not optimal right now.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 08/Feb/11 2:00 PM Maybe someone from the community can take the ownership of updating the XML file for the mapping? one can modify it on our PC linux version. If you do that, we will include it in our future builds.

Jason M Page added a comment - 08/Feb/11 2:04 PM I will see if someone at the AVS forums is willing to do this, I no longer have a Linux rig running, although if the versions were the same I could edit the file on a Mac.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 09/Feb/11 6:07 AM We have released a new EA version, please let me know if it fixes the problem.

Jason M Page added a comment - 09/Feb/11 9:54 AM Unfortunately with version 17401 the double button pushes are still there. This happens with both an HP and a generic USB IR MCE2 receiver that I have. I would imagine it would be pretty easy to duplicate at the Boxee office. If not, let me know what specific log info, etc, is relevant and I will provide it. Thanks!

Jason M Page added a comment - 09/Feb/11 10:09 AM It is only with specific buttons. The okay/enter button does it, and it most frequently happens when navigating from one place in the boxee menu to another one; See if this reproduces the issue; 1. Navigate to movies 2. Hit the menu key 3. Navigate back to "home". When I do this I always get a double beep from the Boxee Box and about 9 out of 10 times I get an inadvertent double push of the button. This is with me just lightly touching the enter/okay button on my Harmony remote. The Harmony does allow for users to adjust inter-key delay timings, etc, and I have had a little bit of success in avoiding the problem if I make the Harmony extremely sluggish to the point that there are long delays between key pushes and when boxee sees them, but even in that case I get the double button push on occasion. The same USB IR plugged into a PC running XBMC does not exhibit any of the behavior, so I suspect something unusual going on in boxee land with this particular problem.

Marcel Boom added a comment - 11/Feb/11 11:13 AM I can confirm the double push problem in 1.0.4.17401. I have it with my Microsoft MCE Remote also. I also tried with a Harmony and the send ir signal time set on the lowest value, problem stays.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 11/Feb/11 12:16 PM Ok. I will look into it again. Will take me a while to respond to this, though.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 21/Feb/11 3:48 PM - edited This has been confirmed with both MCE2005 (MCE2) and Vista-class IR receivers from multiple manufacturers. It's also not dependent on the particular source of the IR as I have tried with two sets of codes from the Harmony database as well as known clean codes (generated) from the URC database. In all these cases, the codes are correctly interpreted by LIRC, so the issue is caused at the Boxee level. I have only been able to duplicate the issue when clicking OK/Select on an icon from the HOME SCREEN or from the pop-up MENU. Never at any other time and never with any other button. It doesn't seem related to the IR driver as it only happens in these parts of the UI, not elsewhere. It also doesn't happen with other buttons. The double click doesn't always have an effect, though you can usually hear the click sound in the UI. Whether or not the second (phantom) click does anything seems to be dependent on how quickly Boxee manages to pull up or refresh the new UI. For instance, usually when going to Movies or TV Shows there's a long delay while covers or whatever else load and cache, so there's no effect. Going to APPS on the other hand is quick and you can easily see the issue. Also, going Home from one of the other areas shows it quite easily (though this operation may not make the second click sound). If Boxee needs a few extra receivers, let me know.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 24/Mar/11 5:18 PM Fixed. Key repeat was not handled properly. We think that button mappings are quite good.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 24/Mar/11 7:03 PM Does "We think that button mappings are quite good" mean that changes have been made to the mappings for 1.1? If not, then the existing mappings are considered by customers to be lacking and incomplete. You suggested that someone from the community take charge of the XML updates and I've stepped up to do just that. I've already put up a preliminary spreadsheet for mappings and the discussion has been on-going in this thread: http://forums.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=29521 I'm quite familiar with the format of the XML and the lirc files within Boxee, and at this time the only thing stalling completion of a brand new remote.xml is getting some information back from Boxee about why many of the Boxee functions, including window functions, aren't working. I've been testing with the desktop version of Boxee and using information from the Boxee source and XMBC for reference. I've put in a request to Marcel and Tom to get an up to date reference for what functions and window display calls are supposed to work so we can incorporate them in button assignments. I'm willing to finish the work, as well as creating a brand new (and compatible) remote definition specific to Boxee based on MCE codes so that there won't be any conflicts with other MCE devices such as XBOX and Media Center PCs.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 24/Mar/11 7:19 PM I went through this thread and got completely lost between different opinions and attachments. I have fixed the numeric keypad to work. Other than that it seems that all buttons were mapped properly. Power cannot be mapped as there's no "Wake on USB" hardware in the box. Can you please explain what specifically is missing?

Jason M Page added a comment - 24/Mar/11 7:33 PM Hi Yuvalt, I think the source of misunderstanding might center around Dan Conti having offered to beef up and enhance the remote support in Boxee Box prior to his departure from Boxee. The offer was made that if the community stepped up and provided remote control enhancements (which as Bruno indicates he has done) that Boxee would incorporate them. There are many areas to enhance, as numerous key mappings do not work depending on the type of IR remote. The good news for you is that the work is already done, it really just needs to be incorporated and tested. Bruno is even ready to make an enhanced Harmony remote control profile for additional keys that don't work at all today. Please review these threads briefly to get the gist of what is going on. http://forums.boxee.tv/showthread.php?p=174193#post174193 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1290828&highlight=boxee PS, thanks for fixing the double key press, it was really annoying! :)

Jason M Page added a comment - 24/Mar/11 7:35 PM PSS, Just to summarize and explain things a bit better; currently there are many remote keys that universal remotes can send that Boxee does not at all recognize. Additionally some basic keys don't work or don't work as users would expect them to work. If the criteria that it's "good enough" means just basic navigation functions, then yes, I'm sure with the fix you made it would fit that definition. Bruno even emailed some of this stuff to you guys a month or more ago and I guess it was never looked at.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 25/Mar/11 4:55 AM Ok. I'll take with Bruno over e-mail. Thanks for working with us on this.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 25/Mar/11 8:55 AM We've taken it to email, but I thought I'd just clear up another point here for the record. While we've done much discussing in the Boxee and AVS forums, the final list of button mappings has not yet been determined. So in that respect it's not "all done" yet. :) Specifically, the spreadsheet I've set up and have started to fill in with the help of Scott, shows what the button mappings are today. However, it does not include the proposed changes since I hadn't been able to get most of the Boxee function and window reference calls to work as I'd expect them. This is the information I have been seeking from Boxee. Without this information I can't plug in specific changes to the xml files. However, without this information we can still describe, in English, what we want the buttons to do and leave it up to Boxee to figure out how to do it. I just thought since the offer was for us to make the mods that we wold be going the extra step of changing the xml files ourselves - so I've done all the research to figure out how they all work. :)

Ami Ben-David [Boxee] added a comment - 29/Mar/11 6:29 AM verified on 1.1.0.18111

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 02/Apr/11 3:56 PM Looking at the spreadsheet I think boxee is quite close to this. Some comments: - Power - makes more sense to do "standby". Will look into it. - Recrod - screenshot -- we don't support it on the box. - skip/ff/rew - we modified the mechanism of seeking in 1.1. I do not think it is necessary to behave as requested. - start -- takes to the home screen. - music/pictures/videos - the remote we use do not have these buttons. will try to find another remote that does. - color buttons - don't understand the request nor rationale. do not think it should be mapped. - teletext - full screen - we do not allow to have video playing in the background, so toggling "fullscreen" feature is not available. - info - currently no "info" screen exists. we are planning to add it in one of the next versions and then we'll map it. Bottom line: - I'll fix power and look for a remote with music/pictures/videos

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 02/Apr/11 4:27 PM Yuval, the spreadsheet is exactly what Boxee currently does. :) We have not yet updated the spreadsheet to document what it should do. We will fill it in this week. Also, video DOES play in the background. You have not properly prevented this from happening as you guys are only dealing with the navigation path/flow allowed through the menu system with the default remote. If you use an MCE remote and jump directly to the HOME screen (or anywhere else) while playing a video you will notice that playback continues in the background. Therefore it either needs to STOP playback or we need a mechanism to jump BACK to the playing video. Again, with the people in the forum we will pick some good defaults. Please understand that we are however not looking simply for a way to use an IR remote in place of the default remote. We're looking to create far better navigation and expose MANY more commands than are currently possible. That means using as many buttons of an MCE remote as we can, including color buttons. INFO. There is most definitely an info screen right now in Boxee. It has been in the UI since the start. You can navigate to the Options menu when playing video and then select INFO from the menu. That is the info screen we're talking about - it shows the description of the movie and the cover. Anyway, please consult the spreadsheet after we've let you know that the edits have been made. They'll be doe this week. If you would provide me with the information I requested regarding the Boxee functions however, I would make all the necessary edits to the XML and map files since I am quite familiar with how the system works.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 02/Apr/11 4:38 PM Bruno, no need to modify the XML. Please describe the changes you guys are suggesting (after reaching a consensus) and I will take it from there. I'm pushing this to our next milestone, assuming you guys will reach the agreement this week.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 02/Apr/11 7:28 PM - edited I would also like to give you guys a new Lirc conf to support new buttons that are MCE-compliant. This will allow us to include a "Boxee-MCE" device in the Harmony database and will prevent those codes from interfering with other MCE devices. Please keep in mind that the most common use of IR will be for people using Universal remotes. Some people might use a real MCE remote, but using a universal will be more common and is the ultimate goal. I just also wanted to point out, regarding the importance/significance of this issue, that the security is currently marked as Early-Access only. If this were a public issue, I can pretty much guarantee that we'd be seeing 50+ votes on it already. If you want to see customer votes in this issue to help gauge the desire, simply change the status to open (for all) and I'll bring the votes. ;)

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 08/Apr/11 12:01 PM I don't think I'll have this done by the end of the day. A number of other priorities and emergencies came up during the week. Should be able to complete it next week however.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 13/Apr/11 1:29 PM Sorry guys but we ran out of time to do any more changes in 1.1.0. I'm pushing this to 1.1.1.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 13/Apr/11 4:22 PM 1.1.1 will be good as it will give me (us) more time to get everything in other. I've simply been swamped with work these past two weeks and haven't been able to dedicate contiguous time to this. A current list of new IR buttons has been posted to AVS here for reference: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20299937#post20299937

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 14/May/11 5:14 AM Any update on this topic?

Michael Rose added a comment - 18/May/11 8:41 AM Yuvalt...I believe most of the mapping requests were placed here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlXVOBl0er7tdEZlVmE2NllpNGZTLVBpZzl3SkltUUE&hl=en&authkey=CODAo8sH http://forums.boxee.tv/showpost.php?p=176315&postcount=66 Bruno can provide you with additional information.

Michael Rose added a comment - 20/May/11 1:07 PM Yuvalt - Also with the new OSD (FF/REW controls)...rewinding or advancing with a Harmony is painfully slow at this point compared to the Boxee remote. Only the directional left/right can be used...

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 18/Jul/11 7:49 PM The 1.2 update has greatly enhanced the default skip/fwd/rew performance, so everyone should make sure to update to that. A single click does the SMALL skip of 10s forward and 7s reverse, while holding down the buttons does a progressive seek. It's both as slow as you want it to be and as fast. Nice job. Yuval, let's get back on the same page with regards to this ticket and IR enhancement. Please consult the work-in-progress spreadsheet again as I've just recently updated it. I will be providing you with IR codes and a new Lirc conf file shortly as well for integration. We can keep detailed discussion to email as it's a lot faster, so if there are any questions/concerns, please give me a shout. IR proposed button spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlXVOBl0er7tdEZlVmE2NllpNGZTLVBpZzl3SkltUUE&hl=en&authkey=CODAo8sH

Jeremy Birch added a comment - 19/Jul/11 9:10 AM Just looking at the spreadsheet on Google Docs I noticed there is no assignment for volume up/down inside the FullScreen Video. I'm not sure if that means it's implied that you can control volume or if that's a conscious choice not to allow it to work inside FullScreen Video. I would assume the former as that's what most people would expect those buttons to do.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 19/Jul/11 11:34 AM Everything in "Global" applies to all other sections, including FullScreenVideo if something else isn't defined for it. So that means all the blank spots in FSV get their actions from the Global section. The volume buttons should always perform volume actions in every section in Boxee, so they'll only be defined in the Global section.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Jul/11 9:05 PM I've generated suitable MCE-style codes which I'll be testing (not in Boxee) over the next few days. I've actually generated a number of different sets so we can hopefully get them all added and the ability to "pair" to a specific set, allowing multiple Boxees to co-exist in the same vicinity with IR support. Attention Boxee developers: It would be great if you could patch the Boxee kernel so that it includes the following two patches: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/jarod/linux-2.6-ir.git;a=commit;h=eb48838f545a6aec94ef3632cf88762657537473 http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/jarod/linux-2.6-ir.git;a=commit;h=8faeead64551b44f526d5afe0f8de962f61ee99b

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 03/Aug/11 12:39 PM - edited The codes seem to be generated correctly and decode properly in other software as well as in Lirc. I have also done extensive setup/testing with the latest Lirc and Linux kernel (using latest MCEUSB patches) to verify that MCE receivers, and in particular our Manta TR1 works flawlessly with other remote protocols besides that of MCE. Such as TiVo, NEC and others. This would allow create a truly unique and perhaps more standard protocol definition specific to Boxee without having to re-purpose MCE-style codes. That's for the back-burner though and I'm moving forward with MCE-style as previously discussed for now.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 04/Aug/11 4:11 PM Can we please have this ticket's EA-only access removed so that the general populace of Boxee customers can see it too?

Jason M Page added a comment - 04/Aug/11 4:18 PM I notice that no one is responding to Bruno and this issue is in the backlog. Boxee, we did have an understanding that since the user community would be doing a lot of the heavy lifting on this, that it would see inclusion in a Boxee release around the 1.2 timeframe. Please provide a status on this issue as many of us do use IR remotes with our Boxee Boxes and are hoping for more robust control capabilities. Thanks

Scott Smith added a comment - 06/Aug/11 10:33 AM I'm going to be really disappointed if we don't see this soon. I realize that bugs should always be given priority over new features, but other new features ARE being incorporated. This has been in the works for many months and Bruno has spent a LOT of his own personal time on it. C'mon Boxee... support the community that's supporting YOU!

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 06/Aug/11 10:55 AM This week I'll assign the codes I've created to the actions/commands that I've put in the spreadsheet. Then the Boxee team can take the additions to the remote conf file for Lirc (which will contain all the IR codes) and incorporate them into the firmware. Once that's done they'll need to address the functionality within Boxee by referencing the spreadsheet. Please realize that some of the functions will likely need new code since the ability to do what's specified may not yet exist within Boxee. But other functions are already there and simply need to be mapped appropriately. The most important thing is to get a Boxee developer to look at this again and start a dialog to get this implemented. It may take a while or may need to be phased in over a few releases to get completed, but that's better than not getting it done.

mjewl added a comment - 07/Aug/11 8:15 AM would be nice to see this ticket solved quick and prioritized as this is one of the most important feature for me that at the moment isnt working that well..

Scott Everett added a comment - 09/Aug/11 11:41 AM I'd also like to see this fixed. Really would help with HT integration and family usability. They all know how to use the URC MX-980 remote, so would love to be able to fully integrate Boxee.

David Vallee added a comment - 09/Aug/11 4:00 PM I really enjoy my boxee box and I could enjoy it more if you could fix this little issue. Thank you very much for providing the community with such a great opensource software.

minimeh added a comment - 11/Aug/11 12:38 PM While the current IR support supplied by using a generic Media Center device is a nice improvement in usability, I have been anxiously looking forward to being able to use Bruno's device that is custom made for the Boxee. Please give this a raised priority and get it into the next release!

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 22/Aug/11 10:08 AM Can we get an update to this ticket please? If Boxee has decided not to address this issue, please close this ticket and we can all move on, otherwise an update or a reply to one of the many emails I and others have written would be nice.

Joacim Svensson added a comment - 22/Aug/11 10:13 AM hopefully the silence is due to the fact that they are busy with the release of the iPad-app, the SMB issues that they've created with the latest update and the HD audio-mess that they're in. But me and my Harmony-remote are aching for this to be addressed too.

mjewl added a comment - 22/Aug/11 2:13 PM i dont understand all this silence about every bug. not a word from the team.. i bet if they were more "open" it would decrease all the flame and hate and people wouldnt be so annoyed about "nothing happening". atleast then everyone would know something was about to happen (or not happen at all)

Paul Nederveen added a comment - 25/Aug/11 3:36 PM I am going to have major headaches in the wife-acceptance-factor if she has to have 2 remotes always on hand for using Boxee. This will limit my ability to put more of these in my house. Desperate to get IR mapping into harmony for unified system control.

Q added a comment - 26/Aug/11 7:25 AM What Paul said!

Andy snider added a comment - 26/Aug/11 8:52 AM Paul: Harmony already works (with an IR receiver). Use the HP MCE profile in Harmony setup. It works, just could work BETTER if Boxee would finish what they promised with Bruno.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:01 AM I still do not understand what are the problems with the current mapping. I know a few people who use it and are very happy. Please outline here the MAJOR issues that exist (please don't send me to spreadsheets, forum links or kernel patches).

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:02 AM @marcus naumburg, this is not a forum for discussions with boxee support. You are welcome to use our forum and support systems to talk to people.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:03 AM @Joacim, you are right on the spot. That and additional nice features we are working for our next release.

Joacim Svensson added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:07 AM @Yuval Tal. Great. I also think, speaking solely about the Harmony at this point since it is the only one in my possession. Having "full" support for Boxee in the sense that it could easily be setup to work (given that you have the IR-receiver) would go a long way to improving the overall user experience. Just being able to choose "Boxee" as a unit when setting up the remote would be a step forward.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:13 AM @Jaocim, but it is working today. Get a MCE IR USB dongle, plug it in, reboot and you should be good to go. There are some quirks that I don't fully understand, which is what this bug is all about.

Michael Rose added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:24 AM - edited @Yuval: The current mapping is very limited with the use of a Harmony remote. That is the major issue which I feel has been made clear. Bruno has put forth a significant effort to provide additional key mappings that are missing in the existing setup. I happened to have to use my WDTV Live recently - while everything else was a downgrade, using my Harmony remote was greatly improved over the Boxee mapping. The frustration arrives from the fact that the mappings have been provided by Bruno with the associated LIRC.conf file to enable full functionality of the Harmony remote and Boxee. Just because something "works" doesn't mean it should stay incomplete. Example: Discrete "back" and "menu" commands

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:27 AM - edited Yuval, multiple people have pointed out numerous times what the issues are with the current IR implementation. First, disregard the first paragraph in the initial bug description. There is no more double-button press. The TITLE of the ticket is what's important here. Improve the key/button mappings - and by improve, we mean fully utilize, hopefully integrating the suggestions we've already worked so hard on. Basically, the IR currently works as a left-over from early XBMC integration and Boxee has not in fact done much of anything at all with it. It doesn't work well at all and is pretty much just a couple of extra commands over top of the basic 6 buttons of the default remote. Many buttons perform the same functionality, most do nothing at all, and some do things they shouldn't with unintended consequences in the Boxee UI (such as jumping to Home while playing TV/movie leaving video playing in the background). We want to make better use of the 40+ buttons found on a any universal remote, giving us the ability to jump around the Boxee hierarchy of screens and giving us discrete access to many more functions than are currently possible, such as multiple (fwd/reverse) step amounts, info on the movie/tv being watched, change aspect ratio with one button press, enable/disable subtitles with one button press, etc. We all appreciate the fact that the Boxee team is busy with much development, but as you and everyone at Boxee is no doubt aware, everyone wants bug fixes rather than extra features at this point. The forum is currently ablaze with the same sentiment. This ticket is about a border-line issue which is partly new feature, but also a big part bug fix, since the current IR support is... not very good at all. Currently, it doesn't achieve any significant functionality that would be possible with a remote containing a lot of buttons. Don't send you to the spreadsheet? How on earth could I include in here all the descriptions of all the functions that could be mapped to each button? I've outlined something relatively straight forward to add more buttons and controls that would give Boxee a more polished and consumer-centric implementation. I'm not asking for a settings UI to let people custom define their own commands and IR buttons. In risk of sounding rude, it's clear that you don't understand, because if you did, we would not have to be asking for better IR remote support and it would be done already. This issue is extremely important, even to those who don't realize that yet. That's OK and that's why as a community we have banded together to provide you with more information. Again, this is not an insult because most people do not understand IR integration or UX either. I have already volunteered to do all the work myself, including all the mapping and editing of the Lirc files in the Boxee distribution, however, at every request, Boxee has simply not provided the information necessary, in terms of the window calls and other commands to jump to to various functions and parts of the UI. The XBMC spec on this subject simply does not work properly in Boxee, with most windowIDs simply producing no results. The other issue is that the original MCE commands have labels that are meaningless to Boxee and they conflict with existing MCE and XBOX systems. I have made all-new IR commands that are easily integrated with Lirc and are compatible with all MCE/WMC receivers that will be proprietary to Boxee and can be further included in the databases of Logitech Harmony, URC, etc. If Boxee is serious about revamping IR support and giving its customers a much improved control and navigation experience, I am here to offer as much help as I possibly can, you just need to be open to accepting it and not so confrontational. I don't think edits in this ticket will be the place to hash out all the details however, and it would be more productive to handle communication through email.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:32 AM The only way to have "Boxee" in the harmony database is with unique codes made specifically for Boxee. I have already done this, and when the codes are added to the Boxee software, I will make sure that they are included in the Harmony database and the URC database, as well as being posted as Pronto hex and CCF for everyone else to use. I'll even send the files to RemoteCentral and the JP1 groups which, for the past 10+ years have been the de-facto go-to sources on the internet for everything related to universal remotes.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:37 AM @Bruno, we at boxee think that the current IR mapping is sufficient for people who are worried about having only one remote. It's not ideal, but compared to other bugs/features it is of lower priority. When this bug was initially opened, it was a showstopper issue that I have fixed. Making full use of the microsoft remote it not a priority for us as we think it is a very poorly designed remote. Again, if there are small fixes, I am willing to make them, but we will not do an overhaul of our IR support (btw, the guy who wrote the MCE IR LIRC module, Dan Conti, was working at boxee until recently, so I will disregard your comment :). If you are interested, you can take the latest source code that we have released for 1.2.1, compile it on linux and make the changes that you want and I will be willing to review them, if they are not big.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:49 AM - edited Dan Conti understands code and understands Lirc. There's nothing wrong with how Lirc works in Boxee and nothing wrong with the most recent MCEUSB driver - it's quite excellent as of the 3.0.3 Linux kernel version (which fixes some bugs). Yuval, you have gotten completely the wrong idea about this issue and what we are doing here. Seriously, please look at the spreadsheet for a clear picture of what we're after and what I'll do for Boxee: https://docs.google.com/a/twistedmelon.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CODAo8sH&key=0AlXVOBl0er7tdEZlVmE2NllpNGZTLVBpZzl3SkltUUE&hl=en&authkey=CODAo8sH#gid=0 The spreadsheet view is the easiest way to visualize the changes. My work is not intended to get people to use a Microsoft remote. They're bad and no one is using one. Everyone is using universal remotes. Universal remotes that often cost much more than the Boxee Box itself. We want to use these remotes to their potential. You're surely not calling all universal remotes poorly designed? Also, new remotes come out quite regularly, all this functionality in Boxee will be exposed to them the same way they are to existing universals. AGAIN: I have created all new IR codes for universal remotes, specific to Boxee. And I'll integrate them with Boxee's Lirc files, you don't need to do any work at all for this part. 1.2.1 as you know will not fully compile. Further, the CE version will not run on any other platform for testing. As I already stated, Boxee's support for XBMC windowIDs and other functions is broken such that using them in the xml files simply produces no results when they're called from buttons. I can edit all the conf and xml files very easily so that all you have to do is copy them into the installation. HOWEVER, this won't be sufficient if Boxee is not working with all the XBMC WindowIDs and other internal commands. Plus, as I've asked before and received no feedback, it's not clear (in Boxee) what part of the XML file represents each specific part of the UI - some are obscure. Easy ones like "Global" and "FullScreenVIdeo" are obvious. If I have that info, and if all the WindowIDs and commands can be made to work, I will gladly do all the edits myself. But please, do not call the current IR support "sufficient" as the mappings are an afterthought at best. I've looked at the files, this is all simply left-overs from XBMC. At the end of the day however, I'm not here to argue. I'm here trying to help you improve your product and if that's not something you want assistance with it would have been nice to know it from the start instead of outright asking the community for help. BTW, I design software, and in particular remote controls and remote control systems, for a living right now.

Jeremy Birch added a comment - 26/Aug/11 10:12 AM For god sakes Boxee team just take Bruno's help. He's obviously gone over and above to try and improve your LIRC config and has put many hours into this. I'm surprised he hasn't just screw you guys and given up by now. And in case you haven't noticed you're not doing him a favor, he's doing you a favor by working for free to improve your product.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 10:17 AM - edited Bottom line to keep everything simple and straight-forward: I never asked for Boxee to do all the work,only to provide the necessary information so that I and others could do the work and provide the edited resources back to Boxee. What is needed from Boxee: Boxee will not have to reference the spreadsheet to make any changes. More information on what keys in remote.xml correspond to the different parts of the Boxee UI More information on which WindowID and internal function names correspond to relevant parts of the UI and functions/actions (we only have XBMC documentation). Fixes to some XBMC WindowID and functions that currently produce no results or incorrect results - if this is a bug, I can file a new ticket on it. A few new commands and IDs if they don't already exist - these can be prioritized and phased in over time. What I will do: All the edits to the Lirc conf files to define new IR codes and button names Edits to the Boxee lircmap XML file to map Lirc button names to Boxee "labels" Edits to the Boxee remote.xml file to map "labels" to functions and windowIDs Get the new IR codes into the Harmony database Get the new IR codes into the URC database Create a Pronto-format CCF for inclusion in Remote Central's IR download section. Create text files with all IR commands expressed in Pronto Hex and JP1 device:OBC format for reference and download What the community will do: Test and report issues.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 10:22 AM @Jeremy no side is doing the other side favors.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 10:25 AM @Bruno, 1.2.1 is not compiling for you on linux? this is bad and weird since some of our devs use linux as their main dev environment. Let me know what breaks for you so I fix it. some of the xbmc functions are simply not being used nor supported in boxee. this is not a bug, it is like that by design, so it can be that we cannot/will not do the full list. If you fix the files I will integrate them.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 10:43 AM - edited I will format a message asking very specific questions about internal Boxee functions and Window IDs. I will send it by email and post it here in this issue ticket. Unfortunately this will have to wait until next week since I have a number of other pressing issues that need to be attended to today. I will attempt to compile the latest 1.2.1 source in Ubuntu (running 3.0.3 kernel) - I last tried this a few months ago, so it's possible the latest source works just fine if you say other devs are using it. Yuval, to save me time, can you please post a link directly to the 1.2.1 linux source?

mjewl added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:03 PM Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 9:37 AM @Bruno, we at boxee think that the current IR mapping is sufficient for people who are worried about having only one remote. lol, i hope your kidding the IR mapping isnt even near sufficient.. and btw, my remote costs more than the shitty (for the time beeing) boxee box and if this "bug" wont be fixed i sure not gonna change remote so then the boxee box will have to surrender to a mediaplayer with better support for universal remotes (harmony) to be true im not sure any longer why i even have the boxee box.. it cant be used with universal remotes (not as good as it should be) cant watch movies without audiodropouts (almost only watch with dts-hd ma) no streaming of youtube or boxee's own movie-trailer-system without a massive lag (no dont even try to blame the internet-connection, i know what im doing and i know the internet-connection i have works very well) and a team of devs that just dont listen to their customers.. kinda sad really, i dont have anything good about the boxee box/boxee team to say to my friends or any else for that matter.. please just fix this! i want to love you and now i just got hate :)

Jason M Page added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:13 PM As frustrated as we all are, we should keep the tone civil and not insult the development team, who I'm sure are working hard on whatever it is they are working on at the moment. @Bruno - you've been working your tail off on this, but I think that Yuval's recent comments make it extremely clear that not only is this not a priority for them, but they don't even understand what the "issue" is. They feel that current IR support is sufficient. Since it would require them to spend a short amount of time providing the command syntax structure needed in order to incorporate the LIRC changes, I think that pretty much this thing is dead in the water at this time and all of us should just move on, even if that means moving on to a post-boxee type of solution.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:38 PM @bruno the 1.2.0 source code is at http://www.boxee.tv/download/?ver=source&early=0 @jason, still so far, within all this thread since April there has not been anyone who took the time to say: button X should do Y, button X1 should Y1 instead of Z1, button X2 is not working. Sending me to AVS forum discussions and lengthy spreadsheets (which I do appreciate the time that it took to prepare), is not helping me to help you.

mjewl added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:40 PM For me that means moving on to another player. So thanks for nothing and good bye. And yeah, im gonna keep on insulting the worst dev team in the world as far as i know. Just not here as im removing my account.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:48 PM @marcus, thanks.

Jason M Page added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:53 PM Yuval, The goal here is to make use of the additional buttons on our expensive universal remote controls. However, having a button on my $200 Harmony remote that jumps to movies, or goes back to the home screen, or any one of a number of other things DOES require that Boxee provide Bruno with the window calls, etc, that he would have to code into the LIRC config to make all of this work. This is directly due to how far Boxee has deviated from the XBMC config in this area. If the configuration was done like XBMC does currently we would not be having this discussion. It's not as simple of a request as changing what the six or eight MCE buttons do, it's a desire to use the added buttons on our expensive universal remotes to get the Boxee to do MORE than the original Boxee remote can do. I will add however, that it's a bit disingenuous to imply that USB support is "fine" as some very basic things like properly controlling FF/REW do not work properly with the USB remote, now that Boxee have changed the FF/REW control scheme.

Jason M Page added a comment - 26/Aug/11 3:59 PM I should also add that at this point the ONLY thing that you have to do to get this to work is to spend 20 minutes providing Bruno the information he needs, as he said he is willing to do ALL of the software changes himself, so you are basically getting this very nice feature that will be appreciated by many users done for FREE.

Yuval Tal [Boxee] added a comment - 26/Aug/11 4:32 PM @jason and all, I will repeat for the third time because maybe I'm not clear enough -- Boxee is not interested in supporting 3rd party remotes beyond the current support that we've implemented. I have a Harmony remote at home and I'm happy with the level of support, so at least there is 1 boxee user who is happy with it. Having said that, if there are specific questions, I will provide specific answers. lf there are specific issues which needs to be fixed and I can pull them off quickly, as I have done in the past, I will continue doing that in future as time permits. Beyond that I'm not going to respond to this theoretical and flaming thread. Thanks everyone.

Bruno Fernandes added a comment - 26/Aug/11 5:53 PM - edited Yuval, the spreadsheet was prepared so I could see for myself what currently works and as a method to clearly communicate with Boxee developers what each button should do. It is exactly what you asked for. Button X should do XXXX. Button Y should do YYYYY, etc. On the left side you see the names of the buttons and on the right side you see in black columns what is currently implemented and in red columns what we're asking for. I can easily reproduce the contents as plain text and post them in a message, but I'm not sure why that's better. It's still going to be "long" because there are over 40 buttons to deal with. But... Anyway, let's move forward with what I proposed, which is for me to make all the changes necessary to the remote-oriented files and for you guys to supply answers to the questions I'll have to help me do that. If any new functionality needs to be created or bugs turn up, I'll file new tickets for those. This way everything can stay straight without room for mis-interpretation. I hope I can get a commitment from Boxee that after I make all the edits to all the files that those files will in fact be used. I'd hate to be wasting my time. I understand how Boxee may not be interested in bettering support for third-party remotes, but that's not really the crux of the entire issue here. We're bettering Boxee, period. When the software goes onto a new box in the future, all this can go with it. It opens up the box to more consumers and generally can make quite a lot of people (aka customers) happy. Everyone, I think Boxee can see how passionate people are about this feature and the product as a whole. We should respect their decisions to implement the product in whichever way they see fit, even if we don't agree. Let's not use this ticket as a forum to vent, especially about other un-related issues. I'd like to continue with only technical discussions in here about the IR support enhancement I'll be working on.